Tampa?

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http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/tampa.2067999/

Tampa?

Why just why should we give Tampa another shot at an MLS team? My thought is whatever the reason they could not make MLS work, there are many many other cities that want and deserve a team before someone like Tampa deserves getting another team.

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Completely different time. Back when The mutiny were folded, the sport was still struggling to catch on in the US and the club was league owned.. Since then the popularity of the sport has grown by leaps and bounds.. the addition of Orlando and Miami should also do wonders with regards to natural rivals...

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Natural rivals to the erstwhile Miami team and to Orlando. History that predates the Mutiny. And a stadium plan that is ready to go. Not to say that Nashville or Cincy or some other town can't get in ahead of them if they get the stadium sorted out, but they are in position right now.

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Good question, and it is worth exploring answers to that question. I'll take a crack.

1. Tampa and Miami were folded out of convenience (league controlled) and not because they were the most deserving at the time.

2. A lot has changed since then. There were no local groups willing to take ownership over the Mutiny. The Glazers were approached and declined. There is solid local ownership that controls the Rowdies.

3. Florida is the third most populous state in the country and still growing. Having three teams in Florida is not unreasonable. Particularly since the sport thrives off having clusters of teams which can be rivals. Orlando City and the Rowdies are a perfect fit for this. Miami too. Miami's inclusion shouldn't disqualify the Rowdies bid. The market is very big for TV purposes.

4. The stadium is privately funded and it sits on a beautiful waterfront tract of land with a hundred years of sporting history.

5. The bid is for St. Pete, not Tampa. St. Pete has changed dramatically over the past decade and the downtown is currently experiencing a renaissance which would be a good place for an MLS team to land.

6. The Rowdies are an established and historic brand and stuff like that matters to a lot of people for optics.

I'm not suggesting that the Rowdies are hands down one of the top four bids, but it is a good bid. The area shouldn't be disqualified just because they were one of the lambs sacrificed for the good of the league at a time when any number of teams could have been folded for the greater good. There are lots of good reasons why a team would do wonderfully in St Pete. But a team would do well in Nashville, Cincinnati, Sacramento, San Diego, San Antonio, Detroit, St. Louis, and Raleigh too. This is going to be a tough decision which I'm glad I don't have to make.

If the Rowdies aren't chosen I hope that the continue to operate as a USL side at their current stadium.

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I think the argument that MLS would weigh most heavily towards Tampa Bay is the media market. The Tampa Bay area has a larger population than either Nashville or Cincy, St Pete has a revitalized downtown (though not as nice as Nashville), and it has become a big draw for millennials.

I can see three teams in Florida given that there are two in NYC and two in LA; but obviously question if it is best for the growth of the sport to leave certain other large markets under served.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/7325z7/for_the_tampa_bay_rowdies_to_be_mls_worthy_they/

For the Tampa Bay Rowdies to be MLS worthy, they need better than 6 road wins in 3 years (medium.com)

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My guess is the author was more stating this figuratively than actually making the case that our road results would matter to the bid.

I read this more like - "Hey, you want MLS? Why don't you get your act together here first!"

As a fan - our road woes are famously frustrating.

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Let em in!

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The Rowdies have some defensive issues, to be sure. But so did Minnesota at the start of the season this year. Remember when they were setting records for giving up goals? If the Rowdies are horrible on the road the first year, they'll get the chance to shore up their defensive issues after the draft. I'd be quite happy to see them join MLS.

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From an attendance perspective they aren't necessarily linked. From an on the field perspective, it's so night and day I can't imagine it would translate at all (haven't looked at it).

Anecdotally Orlando dominated USL and Minnesota was a really solid contender. My guess is expansion means expansion - and lower division to begin with or not doesn't matter one way or the other.

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Tampa Bay should get in based on tradition and the hoop kits alone.

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I don't understand how Tampa is even being considered for an MLS addition. I was living there back when the Mutiny were playing in the 90's and towards the end you couldn't pay people to go to the games. Cities can shift culturally to make MLS teams better fits, but I don't buy the hype for this.

This coming from someone who lives and works in Atlanta and is a huge Atlanta supporter so I guess I've had some hits and misses with the whole national league system.

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You're basing your entire argument around your view from 15-20 years ago.

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It's just a statement about my perception of the viability of the city for an expansion team. My view of that cities viability comes from 15-20 years ago, but as I said, the city could shift culturally to allow success there. I don't live there now, and don't know whether that shift has happened.

Thankfully others have mentioned their market share, fan base, and potential rivalries to my attention. Best of luck to them either way, I guess.

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They’ve got a pretty good fan base built up, they’re a pretty big market, they would create a local rivalry with Orlando and eventually Miami and even y’all as well. They have a fantastic brand that has a lot of history behind it and they have a decent stadium plan. Outside of Sacramento and Cincy I’d say they’re right there with the other bids. Using poorly run MLS 1.0 teams from the late 90s and early 00s is really not a good barometer.

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The Mutiny had no owner and were run by MLS - badly.

You should have lived in Tampa in the 1970s; the Rowdies drew crowds on occasion of over 40,000 and in one case over 56,000, and were averaging over 28,000 a game by 1980.

Moreover, you aren't comparing Tampa Bay Mutiny to the other MLS clubs circa 1996-2001. The Mutiny were about average in MLS attendance in that period; much more poorly drawing teams were not contracted in 2001.

The Mutiny were not contracted due to poor attendance; they were contracted due to lack of ownership and due to the fact that the Glazers were raping MLS in rental fees for the use of Raymond James Stadium.

Had you not lived in Tampa, but lived in many other MLS cities circa 1996-2001, you would have also said that "you couldn't pay people to go to the games". This wasn't a problem unique to Tampa back in that era.

It isn't the Tampa Bay Area's fault that MLS didn't know what it was doing back in that era. None of the issues that the Mutiny had back then have anything to do with the current Tampa Bay Rowdies bid to get into MLS.

We aren't living in 1996-2001 anymore; MLS has changed. The Tampa Bay Area has a long and honorable history in USA soccer; the Tampa Bay Rowdies exist again for very good reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0PXLKJL44E

https://medium.com/@JArnholz/mls2stpete-and-why-the-failure-of-the-mutiny-doesnt-matter-4c0c60b513a9

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http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/rank-the-expansion-teams.2058106/

Rank the expansion teams

Hi, I like reading the rankings other people post, so here is mine. Post yours if interested.

3. Tampa.

Pro: Largest TV market.

Con: Proximity to Orlando. Stadium not approved yet. Stadium outside city

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I agree for the most part.

As far as preparedness goes, I would say....

3. Tampa

And as far as desirability/priority to MLS goes...

5. Tampa

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There are certainly some drawbacks to the St. Pete bid, but you don't include them on your list. The proximity to Orlando is certainly a plus. The league has stated this publicly. No approvals are required for the stadium. The biggest hurdle was cleared in May when the referendum to allow the city to renegotiate the lease for Al Lang passed. Ownership and city council are clearly on the same page with the plan going forward and it will be entirely privately financed. The stadium is right in downtown St. Petersburg which is very nice on prime waterfront property. Basically everything Beckham wanted in Miami but much nicer.

There are some real cons to their bid though. If Miami makes it across the line then St Pete would present three Florida teams and that may not be to the leagues benefit. The Rays have an ongoing stadium situation and depending on how that shakes out it could create some in market competition for eyeballs in an already strained sports market. They did an excellent job creating quite a bit of buzz about the team this past winter and it looked like it paid off when their home opener drew an excellent crowd. Since that game they've not maintained that level of buzz around town.

St Pete may be an excellent play. But it would be smart to consider them for 27 or 28. For 25 and 26 the safest plays are Sacramento and Detroit

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Geography and expanded stadiums holding them back

Tampa Bay, San Antonio

Tampa is a big market. San Antonio is smaller, but one of the fastest growing cities in the country. Both have decently popular lower division teams and decently solid plans to expand their existing stadiums...

...but I'm not sure MLS is impressed with their stadium plans. Tampa's stadium would be small and without options for growth. I never got the impression MLS liked San Antonio's stadium location.

Also I don't know if MLS wants more teams in Texas and Florida. Houston and Dallas have struggled to fill seats and gain market relevance, and those are top 5 cities. San Antonio as a smaller market carries even more risk.

As for Tampa, Orlando probably doesn't want them in the league and would probably need to be compensated for their territorial rights.

I could be wrong but I think Tampa only gets in if Miami fails. San Antonio I have a hard time seeing happen, which is a shame because the Spurs really know how to run a team.

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Bill Edwards bid for St Pete requires no public funding for the stadium. Also, the poster above provided some unfairly harsh criticism of their stadium design.

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Current Nielsen Markets

http://www.lyonspr.com/latest-nielsen-dma-rankings/

1-10/14-15 have MLS teams

11) Tampa-Saint Pete (MLB/NHL/NFL)
12) Phoenix (MLB/NBA/NHL/NFL)
13) Detroit (MLB/NBA/NHL/NFL)
16) Miami (MLB/NBA/NHL/NFL)
17) Denver (MLB/NBA/NHL/NFL)
18) Orlando (NBA)
19) Cleveland (MLB/NBA/NHL)
20) Sacramento (NBA)
21) Saint Louis (MLB/NHL)
22) Charlotte (NBA/NFL)
23) Pittsburgh (MLB/NHL/NFL)
24) Raleigh-Durham (NHL)
25) Portland (NBA)
26) Baltimore (MLB/NFL)
27) Indianapolis (NBA/NFL)
28) San Diego (MLB)
29) Nashville (NFL)
30) Hartford
31) San Antonio (NBA)
32) Columbus (NHL)
33) Kansas City (MLB/NFL)
34) Salt Lake City
35) Milwaukee (NBA/NFL)
36) Cincinnati (MLB/NFL)
37) Greenville-Spartanburg

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here's no one on the list I'd call "flashy". Some are more desirable than others:

From a pure marketing perspective, the largest media markets are potentially "more" desirable (TB, DET, PHX, SAC) (depends on sport market saturation, community interest, availability of sponsorships, etc)

The south and western markets with a heavy Latino viewership could be considered desirable (TB, SA, PHX, SAC)

(From what I've heard, those two criteria above are real enticing to MLS right now ;)- just sayin) You gotta have a stadium though

Miami was the last "flashy" market

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Tampa Bay is one that many would place in Tier two, but the ownership bugs me. For one, Edwards does not exactly have the best reputation, as he has been on the giving and receiving end of major lawsuits. I also am not sure he has the money necessary to compete in the MLS of the future. The stadium is also on the smaller side. With all this said, every other box is checked, as the stadium plan is finished, the city is one of the largest without an MLS team, and here is a demonstrated solid fan base.